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Mark
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41st Post Fri May 16th, 2008 08:56 pm | |
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Where does this notion come from that the Rangers are losing money? Do we have any hard data?
Ticket sales are not the team's only revenue stream.
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Paladin
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42nd Post Fri May 16th, 2008 09:01 pm | |
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LEB wrote: Babe Ruth was sold not because the Red Sox were in financial trouble but because the owner, Harry Frazee, was a NY Broadway producer who needed the money to produce some more plays. One of those plays turned out to be "No No, Nanette" which was a huge hit for Frazee.
I'll have to respectfully disagree with you there. You are right about Frazee and the Plays, but there was a heck of a lot more to that deal. He was fighting with the Commissioner, fighting lawsuits with former leagues, He was trying to avoid (unsuccessfully) liens on Fenway. He couldn't pay the $30K a year rent on Fenway Baseball was suffering from the Black Soxs Scandal, attendance was down, etc.
He solved all his problems by selling The Babe to the Yanks for $125K Cash and a $300K Mortgage on Fenway. There were several other players sent to New York over the next few years, mostly, because the Yanks Owned Frazee.
Lot's of books and debate on the subject and it is fascinating to read about. And Fun to discuss to me.
All that being said, my point was not so much about the Red Soxs financial problems, it was about Owners sometimes making decisions based more on financial instead of baseball considerations. Perhaps I could have found a better example, but I still think Ruth is a good one.
Also for the record. I don't know what the emoticons all mean. So I may not get their meanings. On this slow dial up connection I have they never have time to execute, so I keep java disabled to keep my computer from timing out all the time. therefore, a smile with a guitar just looks like a smile with a guitar, and a smile slapping another smile on the back, just looks like a smile slapping another smile on the back. So if anyone intends for them to mean more than that, you will have to tell me.
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Mark
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43rd Post Fri May 16th, 2008 09:05 pm | |
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Paladin wrote: All that being said, my point was not so much about the Red Soxs financial problems, it was about Owners sometimes making decisions based more on financial instead of baseball considerations. Perhaps I could have found a better example, but I still think Ruth is a good one.
I like the example of throwing David Clyde to the wolves at the age of 18.
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Paladin
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44th Post Fri May 16th, 2008 09:56 pm | |
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Mark wrote: Where does this notion come from that the Rangers are losing money? Do we have any hard data?
Ticket sales are not the team's only revenue stream.
you make a good point Mark. I was basing my comments on gate receipts, my own observations, like watching those fly balls bouncing around out there in those empty seats. How hard they try not to show empty seats on the broadcasts, never discuss attendance figures much, stuff like that. That and knowing the kind of debt they have on the stadium. And losing things like the $75 million they had budgeted that Ameriquest couldn't make good on, etc.
But you are sure right there are other revenue streams, however, I think sooner or latter all of them are tied to fan interest, even though some of it might not show up until current contracts expire.
I guess the thing that concerns me the most is how many of the people in my own circle, have seemed to have lost interest. It really concerns me. I'm trying to whip up enthusiasm, and not having much luck. I get the feeling lots of the people I know, have finally lost interest in the Rangers completely, and have moved on to other things, like hockey, minor league teams, etc. Do you see any of that?
Here is an interesting look at the business side of Baseball, but I'm the first to admit I do not fully understand what all the numbers mean.
http://www.forbes.com/2008/04/16/baseball-team-values-bix-sports-baseball08-cx_mo_kb_0416baseball_land.html
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Mark
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45th Post Fri May 16th, 2008 10:07 pm | |
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Paladin wrote: I guess the thing that concerns me the most is how many of the people in my own circle, have seemed to have lost interest. It really concerns me. I'm trying to whip up enthusiasm, and not having much luck. I get the feeling lots of the people I know, have finally lost interest in the Rangers completely, and have moved on to other things, like hockey, minor league teams, etc. Do you see any of that?
I always look forward to the spring and summer. That is when I spend most nights out in the shop with the Rangers on the TV. When the Rangers have an off day, I almost don't know what to do.
When I was a kid, I spent my nights out in the yard listening to Risenhoover call the games on WBAP.
Because of where I live and other things I am involved in, I don't make it to very many games in person.
If the Rangers lost 120 games, I'd still be interested.
Most of my friends aren't interested in any stick and ball sports, so I can't answer that last part of your question. The one friend that I do have that likes the stick and ball sports is from Kansas. His passion is college football and college basketball. He has embraced the Mavericks since moving here, but not the other Dallas sports teams.
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Mark
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46th Post Fri May 16th, 2008 10:09 pm | |
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| Do we have any idea what the Rangers get from their radio and TV contracts? I know that the broadcast contracts are what set the Yankees apart from the rest of the league.
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Ric
Bayou Bum
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47th Post Fri May 16th, 2008 11:04 pm | |
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| even if it is oh so apparent that Juan had a little 'help' achieving that mark? And that he's not been the same since?
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The wife says I'm obsessed with Baseball. Wow, did THAT come out of left field.
"There are 108 beads in a Catholic rosary. And there are 108 stitches in a baseball. When I learned that, I gave Jesus a chance."
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Paladin
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48th Post Fri May 16th, 2008 11:23 pm | |
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Mark wrote: Do we have any idea what the Rangers get from their radio and TV contracts? I know that the broadcast contracts are what set the Yankees apart from the rest of the league.
I found a pretty good, (but old) article on the subject. Interesting reading even if the numbers are out of date. I do recall reading somewhere this year that the Rangers are now #6 in the media market for baseball nationwide.
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=1297
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jellowrestling
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49th Post Sat May 17th, 2008 06:42 am | |
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LEB wrote: If I had to choose between a guy who averaged 40+HR over seven years and a recovering drug addict who doesn't have 40HR for his career.....I gotta pick Juan.
Juan was a mediocre defensive player, and a big jerk. That being said, Juan was a good player, but Hamilton does it all. I don't consider myself one to jump on the bandwagon at the first sign of something good, but Hamilton is simply amazing, and he makes it look easy, too.
BTW, I didn't see the game, but he was 5 for 5 tonight (and a walk). 2 homers and a triple.
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jellowrestling
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50th Post Sat May 17th, 2008 06:45 am | |
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Ric wrote: even if it is oh so apparent that Juan had a little 'help' achieving that mark? And that he's not been the same since?
That might help to explain why he was such a jerk, too. Or maybe that part was "natural".
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Popularity is fleeting, Michael; principles are forever - George W. Bush
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Mark
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51st Post Sat May 17th, 2008 01:22 pm | |
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jellowrestling wrote: LEB wrote: If I had to choose between a guy who averaged 40+HR over seven years and a recovering drug addict who doesn't have 40HR for his career.....I gotta pick Juan.
Juan was a mediocre defensive player, and a big jerk. That being said, Juan was a good player, but Hamilton does it all. I don't consider myself one to jump on the bandwagon at the first sign of something good, but Hamilton is simply amazing, and he makes it look easy, too.
BTW, I didn't see the game, but he was 5 for 5 tonight (and a walk). 2 homers and a triple.
Assuming similar talent levels, I'll take the recovering junkie over Juan's complacency every time......
Hamilton understands that he is a junkie, and he is doing what he has to do to deal with it. He even lets his babysitter carry his meal money on the road.
Juan Gonzalez was typical of many latin American ballplayers that viewed reaching the major leagues as the finish line. He didn't work on improving his game and didn't appear to care about the team.
Having said all of that, I must agree that Hamilton is the more talented player. He does everything exceptionally well, not just hit homeruns. My understanding is that the Reds players resented Hamilton and didn't treat him well. WTF were they thinking? Maybe that's one of the reasons the team was willing to trade him. Their loss is our gain. Hamilton was the number one overall pick in the draft for a reason.
Here's a question: How scary would the DRays be right now if they hadn't let Hamilton go for nothing?
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stemyn
This may be the season
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52nd Post Sat May 17th, 2008 02:53 pm | |
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| You are so right. Gonzo was just satisfied that he made the major leagues. Hangnail? Ooops, can't play tonight. He was one of the Rangers I never really liked.
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Every hitter likes fastballs, just like everybody likes ice cream. But you don't like it when someone's stuffing it into you by the gallon. That's what it feels like when Nolan Ryan's thrown balls by you.
Reggie Jackson
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Paladin
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53rd Post Sat May 17th, 2008 03:21 pm | |
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Mark wrote: Here's a question: How scary would the DRays be right now if they hadn't let Hamilton go for nothing?
Well they are pretty scary anyhow. But if they had the same Josh we have right now, they would be awesome. Just like we are right now with him.
Two home runs, and seven RBI's and yet the announcers picked one of his defensive catches as "The Play of the Game."
To me that says a lot!
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Ric
Bayou Bum
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54th Post Sat May 17th, 2008 04:07 pm | |
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I thought they picked a catch by Pence in RF in a losing cause, on a drive to deep right off the bat of Shelton with the bases loaded that kept the game tied .......
Maybe I mis-remembered....
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The wife says I'm obsessed with Baseball. Wow, did THAT come out of left field.
"There are 108 beads in a Catholic rosary. And there are 108 stitches in a baseball. When I learned that, I gave Jesus a chance."
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Mark
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55th Post Sat May 17th, 2008 05:54 pm | |
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Remember Giants homerun hitter Kevin Mitchell from 10-15 years ago?
I'll never forget that highlight of him making that running barehanded catch in left field.
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LEB
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56th Post Sat May 17th, 2008 06:01 pm | |
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Juan worked his tail off to beome a two time MVP. He also became a respectible fielder as well. Yes, he had a lot of nagging injuries. Should he have played through those, I can't tell you. But the Rangers had a great deal of success with JuanG batting 4th through the mid-late 90's.
Hamilton is a terrific looking player and is showing why he was the top draft pick. Maybe he'll become one of the all time greats but I'm not ready to put him in the hall of fame after a quarter season.
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Ric
Bayou Bum
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57th Post Sat May 17th, 2008 06:19 pm | |
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With us.
Juan worked his tail off? Huh.
I remember a game he didn't play in because his pants didn't fit just right.
Worked at lifting and gaining muscle to become a fraud? I'll give him his due as a very good player.. maybe even a great player. I give Bonds the same... accomplishments, are, after all, accomplishments, no matter what.
But... this kid was a known 5 tool entity when he was drafted. HE committed hari-kari to his career, and now has put himself back on track to be what he was supposed to be..
I'll ask you this. Did you have this much doubt about A-Rod in his early Seattle days? Or Griggey, Jr.?
Why are you having such trouble bridging the gap for this young stud? The situations are awfully similar.
Sometimes, a truly gifted player comes on the scene, and in my mind, should be acknowledged...
and after a 1/4 of the season, have you looked aqt his fairy-tale number of RBI's?
Nobody is even within spitting distance of Hamilton. The ONLY thing that would slow this freight train is an injury....
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The wife says I'm obsessed with Baseball. Wow, did THAT come out of left field.
"There are 108 beads in a Catholic rosary. And there are 108 stitches in a baseball. When I learned that, I gave Jesus a chance."
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LEB
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58th Post Sat May 17th, 2008 06:36 pm | |
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Ric wrote: With us.
Juan worked his tail off? Huh.
I remember a game he didn't play in because his pants didn't fit just right.
Worked at lifting and gaining muscle to become a fraud? I'll give him his due as a very good player.. maybe even a great player. I give Bonds the same... accomplishments, are, after all, accomplishments, no matter what.
But... this kid was a known 5 tool entity when he was drafted. HE committed hari-kari to his career, and now has put himself back on track to be what he was supposed to be..
I'll ask you this. Did you have this much doubt about A-Rod in his early Seattle days? Or Griggey, Jr.?
Why are you having such trouble bridging the gap for this young stud? The situations are awfully similar.
Sometimes, a truly gifted player comes on the scene, and in my mind, should be acknowledged...
and after a 1/4 of the season, have you looked aqt his fairy-tale number of RBI's?
Nobody is even within spitting distance of Hamilton. The ONLY thing that would slow this freight train is an injury....
I have doubts about all young players until they prove themselves and it takes more than a quarter season to do that. ARod, Junior....they're all over 500 HR's, but I wasn't ready to put any of those guys into the hall of fame anymore than I would have been ready to proclaim Bob Hazle one of the all time greats after hitting .403 in 41 games and helping the Braves to the World Series in 1957.
I'm a fan of Albert Pujols...one of the great hitters today. But it's only after seven years that I think Pujols can now be put in a class with other Cardinals greats like Musial and Hornsby. Albert is outstanding, but Stan was "the Man" for 22 seasons.
It's a matter of perspective and respect for what those who have "done it" have accomplished and no slight against Hamilton. Like I said, maybe one day he'll totally obscure the records Juan and ARod set here. But this ain't the day.
Last edited on Sat May 17th, 2008 06:44 pm by LEB
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Ric
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59th Post Sat May 17th, 2008 07:03 pm | |
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| I guess we'll agree to disagree... I, too don't like annointing before its time. but.. this ain't the kids rookie season, and it surely isn't just dumb luck that he is tearing it up....
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The wife says I'm obsessed with Baseball. Wow, did THAT come out of left field.
"There are 108 beads in a Catholic rosary. And there are 108 stitches in a baseball. When I learned that, I gave Jesus a chance."
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LEB
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60th Post Sat May 17th, 2008 08:36 pm | |
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It ain't dumb luck. Hamilton has ENORMOUS talent and has had a great quarter season. But whether he can keep 1. healthy 2. sober 3. focused are all things we can't know for several season and be considered as the greatest player in Rangers history.
Other teams are coming up with "books" on Josh and how well he adjusts will be a key and when he goes into a slump, how will he fight off adversity?
There have been a lot of people who got off to great starts only to fail to become the stars some thought. Consider people like: Pete Reiser, Herb Score, Walt Dropo, Joe Charbeneau, Mark Fidrych, Joe Black, Von McDaniels and even Rick Ankiel.
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